Independent contracting

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Independent contracting

Posted by dianomal on Jul 10, 2010 8:32 pm

Does anyone have experience being an indepedent contractor? 
Has anyone worked with Nurse Visions www.nursevisions.com?
Has anyone ever heard of carrying your own workers compensation insurance?  (I dont mean liability insurance) 
Diane
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Re: Independent contracting

Posted by Wes Herdlein on Jul 12, 2010 9:00 pm


Why would you carry your own workers comp insurance?  Wouldn't this be the same as a short term disability policy?  I carried a short and long term policy for years and should probably start again (especially after 10 weeks off with a broken clavicle!)

I investigated the indep travel contracting quite a bit 3 years ago.  I decided against it for several reasons.  The primary reason it that I wanted a buffer between me and the IRS.  Indep contractors and much more likely to be audited and I don't need that trouble.  Also, it can be very difficult to find a travel job on your own.  I would think that most hospitals/clinics would rather work with an established company and an independent.  It lowers their risk as far as competency/references/liability, etc.  I would like some other opinions on this topic also.  DavidRN, a new member, has written a book on healthcare travel.  Try forwarding your questions to him also.  I am sure he knows the risks and benefits.
Wes Herdlein, P.T.
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Re: Independent contracting

Posted by drproffitt on Jul 12, 2010 9:48 pm


How do I get a copy of this book?!  Sound interesting...

1099 does present some challenges...if you have a great CPA then it can be very beneficial...but be prepared to do more work and cover your rear end.
David
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Re: Independent contracting

Posted by Rebecca Herdlein on Jul 13, 2010 1:47 pm


Hello drproffitt,
 
We are currently in the process of getting a link to his book up on the site.  For now, you can connect with him through his profile and ask him how to get a copy of his book.  You can go to his profile here:  DavidRN

He is a wonderful resource and EAGER to share information with Healthcare Travelbook members!  The book is also a great read for anyone in the industry!
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Re: Independent contracting

Posted by dianomal on Jul 22, 2010 7:53 am

Wes,
The workers comp question came up because, in trying to get a better per diem rate at Rutland Regional, they offered that they would pay more if I carried workers comp. But even that rate wasnt enough to entice me, I only wanted 20 hours per week, I cant give up the jobs in Bennington- one is paying me the same as thier offer and  the other $10 more per hour.... and I dont have to drive an hour each way to work!
But it is clear to me now, the comp coverage is on the employer, either a staffing co or the hospital.  
I have spoken with  nursevisions, they are operating with fewer employees who work from home so less overhead, they pay you as a  subcontractor with 1099 wages,  but they are still the matchmaker and get a cut.  I spoke with Mel;  he sounded very nice, I may, some day, give them  a try. 
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Re: Independent contracting

Posted by drproffitt on Jul 22, 2010 1:06 pm


Diane,  I know we discussed this before and I remain skeptical.

If I were in your shoes, I would get this in writing (company XYZ stating they can and will pay your work comp AND hiring you as 1099).  I have investigated this to the best of my ability and the experts we have consulted have all said that this no-go.  Regardless, I did some reading and found some websites offering more information on this.  I would definitely support you in checking with a CPA, applicable state board/work comp court, etc.    Please see these links:

http://www.workerscompinsider.com/archives/000230.html

http://www.naic.org/documents/committees_c_wctf_naic_iaiabc_ind_contractor_overview.pdf             (see page 2 and 3 of this PDF, though it is LONG)

http://www.labor.vermont.gov/Default.aspx?tabid=1125
David
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Re: Independent contracting

Posted by dianomal on Jul 23, 2010 7:16 pm

Hey David...thanks....gotta check these out
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Re: Independent contracting

Posted by LBakerRN on Jul 24, 2010 12:15 am

Yes, on the worker's compensation insurance coverage for IC's (personal coverage).  I just "looked" into the need for this in Colorado, and while it is not required, it is highly suggested. If for some reason the IC AKA nurse working was injured/hurt while working, they would have to pay full costs of the injury and be out any lost wages without coverage. For example, lifting and you substain a rotator cuff tear, surgery, PT/OT, recovery time, loss of income for the 6 to 8 weeks minimum after surgical repair, can be very expensive. As explained to me using this example, can you afford perhaps $100,00.00 out of pocket expenses? If you can SUPER, if not then paying for WC is worth the cost.
For a RN in Colorado coverage for WC is $1657.00 per year, $414.25 to start. This rate was quoted to me on 7-16-10. If anyone would like the agent's information I would be glad to share his name and number.
Do the best you can, and make it better, then make it excellant, and repeat daily.
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Re: Independent contracting

Posted by Colleen on Jul 25, 2010 10:16 am


How is having your own work comp insurance different/better then having health and disablity insurance?  It seems to me the latter would be more useful as I am covered even if I am hurt out side of work. 
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Re: Independent contracting

Posted by dianomal on Jul 26, 2010 7:28 pm

I agree, Colleen.  And also I wonder is the WC policy  portable from state to state?

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Independent contracting

Posted by rntraveler on Jul 27, 2010 10:34 am

I just wanted to post that there is a forum for Independent Contractor's and it is hosted by another traveler "Ned" and it is quite indepth. I am not doing the IC thing but consider it strongly as I don't trust the majority of companies out there... they are too quick to shovel you a mouth full and then sue you when you can't make it through or the hospital cancel's, which we know happens all too often.. .

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ICNurse/start
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Re: Independent contracting

Posted by Colleen on Jul 29, 2010 12:57 pm


rntraveler,
Thanks for sharing IC link.  There is great info provided on it.
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Re: Independent contracting

Posted by dianomal on May 11, 2011 9:31 pm

Here is an update: 
Workers Compensation is available through a residual market program of a designated underwriter, the State's Dept of Insurance determines what company that is.  Once this secret was discovered, the rest was easy.  No, an IC does not, by law, need WC; however, the employer has the right to require it.  It is not that  expensive.  Process is involved and of course  is a closely guarded secret (not really, but it sure seems like it)
I have IC status at current job, I am not pressured to make up hours if I dont make 40 hours... cannot be dinged my stipend.  I dont have to request reimbursement of anything.   I got the job through RVisions, they take a cut but not as much as any other company I have worked for.   They get me access to the hospital vendor (like Medifis). 
So far, so good
Diane
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Re: Independent contracting

Posted by Epstein LaRue on Nov 12, 2011 1:05 am

Actually, the only book with a full chapter on Independent Contracting (written with the help of Ned) can be found in the Highway Hypodermics series (Travel Nursing 2007 and On The Road Again) which can be found on Amazon HERE.

Epi... Travel Nurse Advocate and Author www.highwayhypodermics.com
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Re: Independent contracting

Posted by cvani on Nov 12, 2011 3:28 pm

Independent contracting is a bit of a misnomer.  The IRS has declared that if your work is controlled by the person for whom you are contracting, you are technically an employee. Because of the 'control' of the insurance companies and Medicare and JACHO, your work in most setting is controlled.  Control means that they tell you HOW to do your work.  Most places require their forms be used, you work their hours, etc.  It is not clear that a PT can really be considered an 'independent contractor' according to the IRS.  A way around this is to form your own company (free if you incorporate in DE, up to $300 in some other states) and 'employ' yourself.  You can then have the facility contract with your company.  You will then be an employee of your own company.  This can be a very sweet deal since you can then deduct your home office, phone, travel expenses, child care and any other 'benefits' you wish to pay yourself.  Some caveats about this is that your gross income will then look lower since benefits are not taxed so if you go to get a loan or mortgage, they will consider your taxable gross income. In addition, should you decide to hire another PT to work in the same arrangement under your company, you must offer that employee the same benefits.  Since you would be an employee of your company, you not only can carry WC, but you MUST carry WC.  You can get WC through your state.  It has been several years since I did this so I don't recall how much it was, but not much and it is actually not a bad thing to have. The difference between WC and health ins. is that if you are injured on the job in a compensible injury, you are paid wages for the time you are laid up (usually about 60% of expected salary since it is not taxable income).  When I began independent contracting, I consulted with an attorney who gave me a plethora of information in just one session.  One more thing... if you are an employee of your own company, you need to file quarterly with IRS and pay tax on the earnings, give yourself a 1099 form at the end of the year and pay annual corporate filing tax in your state, do state quarterly filings and withholding and (as above) have WC coverage.  Your SBA (Small Business Administration) can provide you with lots of materials for free and hook you up with someone who can help mentor you. But as long as the facility is directing how you do your work, you may be 'contracting' but you are technically an 'employee' and they must pay WC for you.  The following is from the IRS guidelines: 20 RULE TEST

1. An employee is required to comply with instructions about when, where, and how to work. The employer's right to instruct, not the exercise of that right, is the key. Instruction may be oral or in written procedures or manuals.

An independent contractor is hired to provide goods or services and is not instructed in great detail about how to provide the goods or services.

2. An employee is usually trained by one of the institution's experienced employees. Training indicates that the employer wants the services performed in a certain manner.

An independent contractor ordinarily uses his or her own methods, is hired for his or her expertise, and receives no training from the institution that purchases services.

3. An employee's services are usually integrated into business operations, generally showing that direction and control are being exercised. Integration of services into the business operation occurs when the success or continuation of a business depends to an appreciable degree on the performance of services that are difficult to separate from the business operation.

An independent contractor's services can usually stand alone and are not integrated into business operations.

4. An employee is hired to render services personally. If the employer is interested in who does the job as well as in getting the job done, it indicates that the employer is concerned about the methods used as well as the results of services performed.

An independent contractor is hired to provide a service and often the employer does not care who performs that job.

5. An employee has little control over the hiring, supervising, and payment of assistants. Such action by an employer generally shows control over people on the job with whom assistants work.

An independent contractor will hire, supervise, and pay other workers under a contract in which he or she agrees to provide materials labor and is responsible for the attainment of a given result.

6. An employee normally has a continuing relationship with the person for whom services are performed. Services may be continuing even though they are performed at irregular intervals, on a part-time basis, seasonally, or over a short term.

An independent contractor has a defined relationship that typically ends when the services are completed.

7. An employee has set hours of work established by the employer, indicative of control. Such a condition bars the worker from allocating time to other work, which is a right of an independent contractor.

An independent contractor tends to establish time use as a matter of right.

8. An employee usually devotes full time to the business of the employer. Full time does not necessarily mean an eight-hour day or five-day week. Its meaning varies depending on the intent of the parties.

An independent contractor is free to work when, for whom, and for as many employers as desired.

9. An employee typically does his or her work on the employer's premises which implies control, especially if the work could be performed elsewhere. Someone who works in the employer's place of business is at least physically within the employer's direction and supervision. However, performance of work off-site does not, of itself, mean that no right to control exists.

An independent contractor usually does work that can be completed on or off the employer's premises.

10. An employee often must perform services in a prescribed sequence, which shows a level of employer control. Here, too, the right to set the sequence, not the exercise of that right, is the key.

An independent contractor normally is free to perform services in any manner that produces desired results.

11. An employee submits or provides regular written or oral reports that indicate employer control.

An independent contractor submits reports as specified by the contract and may provide them in the broadest of terms and with less frequency than an employee would.

12. An employee is usually paid for work by the hour, week, or month. The guarantee of a minimum 
salary or the granting of a drawing account at stated intervals with no requirement for repayment of the excess over earnings tends to indicate the existence of an employer-employee relationship.

An independent contractor is customarily paid by the job in a lump sum or on a commission basis.

13. An employee is reimbursed or paid by the employer for business and traveling expenses, a factor that indicates control over the worker.

An independent contractor is paid on a job basis and normally has to assume all expenses except those specified by contract.

14. An employee usually is furnished by the employer with any tools and materials needed, which is indicative of employer control over the worker. In some jobs employees customarily use their own hand tools.

An independent contractor supplies the tools and equipment.

15. An employee normally does not have a significant investment in the facilities used in the job.

An independent contractor often has a significant investment in facilities used in performing services. Facilities generally include equipment or premises necessary for the work, but not such items as tools, instruments, and clothing that are provided by employees as a common practice in their trade.

16. An employee usually does not realize a profit or suffer a loss as a result of the service provided.

An independent contractor is in a position to realize a profit or suffer a loss as a result of services provided.

17. An employee tends to work exclusively for one employer.

An independent contractor normally works for more than one employer at the same time.

18. An employee usually does not make services available to the general public.

An independent contractor makes services available to the general public. "Making services available" may include hanging out a shingle, holding a business license, and having advertising and telephone directory listings.

19. An employee is subject to discharge, showing that control is exercised. Limitation of the right to discharge under a collective bargaining agreement does not detract from the existence of an employer-employee relationship.

An independent contractor cannot be fired so long as results produced measure up to contract specifications.

20. An employee has the right to end the employment relationship at any time without incurring liability.

An independent contractor usually agrees to complete a specific job and is responsible for its satisfactory completion or is legally obligated to make good for failure to complete the job.

If administrators are still not sure whether a person is an employee or an independent contractor, they may file a Form SS-8 (Information for Use in Determining Whether a Worker Is an Employee for Federal Employment Tax Withholding) with the IRS to request an official determination. The Form SS-8 is available from local IRS offices.

Hope this is helpful and not too much overload.
Shine on,
Candee Van Iderstine, P.T.

 
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Re: Independent contracting

Posted by sunsnook on Nov 14, 2011 12:20 pm

Wow! Thanks for all the info, Candee! 
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